Western men and historical culture

Malheureusement, vous avez raison!
Ici Il y a un thème avec des félicitations pour le Jour de la Victoire dans la guerre 1941-1945. Aucun homme n'a écrit un message de félicitations sur ce sujet. 

J'ai râté ce thème, désolé. Mais effectivement, vous avez raison, c'est un point important. S'agissant de la Seconde Guerre Mondiale les gens à l'Ouest ignorent presque tout du rôle capital joué par la Russie et / ou l'Ukraine / La Biélorussie etc. (en fait l'URSS) dans la victoire contre le nazisme. Y compris des hommes qui ont épousé des femmes de l'ex-URSS.

Есть исключения . Мой муж старается говорить на русском , правильного мнения о том кто победил фашистов  и хочет на старости поселиться в моем городе. Надо правильно воспитывать 

Муж моей подруги (итальянец) больший патриот России, чем она сама. Каждый отпуск ездят к ее родителям на Урал. Он собирает грибы, ходит в баню, в восторге от беляшиков и соленых груздей. Смотрит советские фильмы, слушает русские,татарские, и грузинские песни. Обожает наши мультики. Говорит, что в них есть душа.  

I think if the man and woman are on the same level of thinking they can discuss the historical background of their countries sooner or later. But the problem is that many people are not interested even in the history of their own country. Another problem is political propaganda, which speculates and distorts historical facts. Unfortunately it can be very difficult sometimes to separate one from another. Your question is not very simple.

история из жизни реальная.
у меня был мужчина, он француз мы общались по интернет и несколько раз встречались во франции.На протяжении 3 лет.
планировали дальше наш быт и где будем жить.мы решили в России.
и наши отношения разрушились из за политики в тот период когда началась война на Донбассе и во Франции Россию пропогандировали как вражескую страну.Мы расстались, разрушилась моя жизнь и он тоже.

C’est pas du tout mon cas. Mon époux s’intéresse beaucoup à la Russie. Heureusement ici à Genève les événements consacrés à l’histoire et à la culture russe ont lieu assez souvent. Différentes conférences, concerts des artistes russes etc.. C’est toujours complet.. Je suis frappée par le nombre des personnes qui s’intéressent à la Russie. À Genève il y a une édition qui s'occupe des traductions des auteurs russes et en même temps des publications des auteurs européens qui écrivent sur la Russie. Et bien sûr on voyage pas mal avec mon mari.. Même on a visité les endroits bien éloignés tout au nord de mon pays.. Oui vous avez raison les médias crée les clichés sur la Russie, ils font leur travail.. Mais nous, les femmes russes, nous baissons pas nos bras et nous faisons notre travail aussi dans nos familles.. Et je vois très bien comment mon mari change ses regards sur ce thème..

Да! Наших женщин за рубежом, можно смело зачислить в шпиёнки и пропагандистки!    

Смотрительница в одном из музеев Марселя, хватала меня за руки и сделав страшные глаза рассказывала о том, что Екатерина Вторая имела интимную связь с конем. Пришлось отцепить от себя бабушку и пояснить, что она попутала Екатерину Вторую с императором Калигулой, сделавшим своего любимого коня Инцитата римским сенатором. 

Я думаю , что судить о стране по тому , что подаёт  СМИ - ошибка .  

Из-за политики,навряд Вы расстались.Если есть любовь, причем здесь политика.

Julien, Вам это надо? Вы же хотите только виртуальное общение.Вам написать невозможно.

Я даже бы сказал, что судить реальность и наш мир вообще только через СМИ, это ошибка ;-)

You are absolutley right, what concerns the History, it is always difficult in fact to separate the political view and the facts. In a certain way, a fact itself is a subjective choice.

So the couples are together and happy, making it work and you choose to instead of being happy for them, focus on how sad you are that these men don't know enough about the history and culture of their partner? it doesn't seem to be affecting their relationship so why does it matter to you?  Everybody feels the need to offer their opinion on things that have nothing to do with them, worry about your own life.

Все дело в том, что люди не ищут сложностей. Проще новости по телеку глянуть, испугаться и баюшки.  

Ужастики на ночь ?  

Ну, хороших-то новостей не показывают.  

Probably you are right. Most important is love between people. After that, there is a question of how sharing historical (and also political) view seems being an important value inside a family. For some people, this question is secondary. On the other hand, there are also cliché about western countries from the eastern side of Europe.

Any opinion will be also subjective. In this case, a person of another culture is interesting in itself as a subject of this culture. One part of the personality is formed consciously but the other part is transmitted through the language and environment. The result is something unique and beautiful. But not in all cases.

I agree, when I mean by "subjective" is not only an opinion, this is - as you say - an objective context such as the environnemental and the langage influence (and many other sources). Mnay people do not recongnise it, but this is true: we are in a certain way, all a kind of "product" of our context. On the other hand, everybody is unique, because of these multiple objective links to his environment. But also the capacity of the consciousness to distance with itself (which leads to the freedom of subjectivity).  

If I correctly understand your idea, I can say that the ability to be free from subjectivity is available only to a few. This requires a certain courage in thinking and this can not be inherited and can not be created by effort of will. It just happens to some people.  But most people think very linearly and predictably. It's the same when it comes to love. It's fine in any case, but for an inquisitive mind, the question remains where its object of love came from, what culture. It seems to me that these questions and the answers to them can make the relations deeper. I sincerely wonder why some people do not do this.

Hi Billy ,

How you're doing ?It seems now , you put in a little more effort and work in to this site.

I have not read the whole thread yet , but just want to give my thoughts about this.

Foreign men seek a Slavic wife/partner , and then believe or think that that should do it.And all will be milk and honey.

To let a relation work , at least , the both partners , should have some understanding , about their cultural , social and sometimes religious background.

To have a better understanding , between each other , and /or to avoid mis-communication , to know , why a person is saying this , or doing that , I believe that it is (very)
important to know in what tradition this person , did grew up.

As such , learning about her / his country's history and the family traditions , is certainly a must.
In this age and era of modern thinking , technical opportunities , lack of social individual responsibilities and living more by the day , than thinking about the future ( well mostly for Western youths ) , it is the more important , to realize and understand , that you 2 come from different social , cultural backgrounds.

And , have you now , recovered from this shock or are you still on doctor's prescription ??

Welcome to the West ...  

Hi Eric, I'm doing great, hope you're well my friend, how is life treating you?

I completely agree with all that you're saying, and I wasn't arguing at all that understanding and learning about your partner and where they came from aren't important. Far from that. I'm simply saying at the end of the day people are people and for all our differences we are more alike than different, there are some learning curves and bumps along any relationship but if couples are making it work, it seems silly as an outsider to comment negatively on what is personal between 2 other people, we're not involved in the dynamics of their relationships, we can't tell them what it is supposed to look like, that is for them to define. The poster here was saying how he feels about his friends relationships...let them worry about it. We can just be the best partners we can be and what will work for others may not work for us and vice versa. There may be some ignorance or naivity initially in some who start relationships across cultures/distances/religions what have you but that quickly erodes and reality sets in pretty fast, and people will either make an effort to know their partner, or they won't and the ones that won't usually don't last. It's hard enough to make a relationship work that we don't need others giving us arbritrary standards to live up to.

Привет, подруга по несчастью. Имела( как мне казалось) серьезные отношения с французом. Уже была одна реальная встреча в Париже. Вот собиралась в очередную поездку( билеты на руках).А тут БАЦ- Крым. И стал он меня по Скайпу пытать. Я ему объясняю, ШО политика совсем не моя фишка, родину свою ругать и хаять не буду, действия президента комментировать не собираюсь. За пару дней до вылета самолёта мой милый француз меня просто заблокировал по всем каналам общения.
В Париж я всё же поехала , и это был самый прекрасный отпуск в моей жизни ( но без прежнего мусьё, конечно).

Billy ,

So , we seem to "see" things the same.And I was not criticizing you , or anyone else.Just wanted to say , how I personally see and think about a relation , with people from different cultures / backgrounds / tradition.

How or what any person feels , to give depth , harmony and sensuality , to their relation , is completely up to them.
But , it would be a shame to let it slip away , after all the hard work and the time , it took , to finally become a couple.

Well , I feel that I'm doing fine and do not have any reason to complain.
As a matter of fact , I am planning to go to Ukraine , later this year or the beginning of next year.

And I think of making this a 2 month stay (but can't really say right now).
Sure , things have changed over there , compared to my last visit.

And I'm not sure , how I will think or feel about the new situation.But , to be there is the best thing , to understand what life is all about these days.