The statement that you quoted rather refers to those environments where raising children is not a "man's task".

I think, ideally the man should love both (his wife and his children), apart from the fact that his decision to have children must be well thought-over. This is to avoid situations when divorce with the mother automatically means a "divorce" with the children.

love is a choice...if you really want love , it will happens with you...
just look around and you will find your love

The statement reinforces my view that regardless of environment, the best thing a father can do to show his love for his children is to love their mother.

By showing love to their mother, the children feel secure in their family. His actions toward his wife model a proper relationship between a man and a woman and promote a feeling of security for the entire family. Teaches his children how to treat their spouses.

Each night when he returned from his work, the first thing my father did was hug and kiss my mother. My brothers and I also ran to meet him and experienced the warmth and security of a loving family. Never was the word "divorce" mentioned in our family, except when describing relationships of others. I could not even imagine the pain of divorce when growing up. Could not understand why anyone would get a divorce. Everyone suffers.

By showing their mother total love and devotion, the father builds a strong relationship with her that becomes an unbreakable bond; he owes her that because he chose her. He made a vow. She feels that loves and responds. Deliberately working at his relationship with his wife causes their love to bloom and stay in bloom. Their love is felt by their children and causes the children to be at peace and feel secure.

I think both. Initially it's a feeling and something that happens. The commitment, desire, and work needed to grow that initial feeling into a life long relationship is more of a choice.

Я считаю, что дети должны рождаться от любви и в любви расти. Когда перед глазами детей папа и мама которые любят друг друга, они видят хороший пример. И именно по этой причине лично я не поддерживаю сохранение семьи только ради детей. Что будут видеть дети, родители которых не любят друг друга? Они будут чувствовать себя тоже не желанными, не научаться искренности, нежности, уважать и заботится о близком человеке.

It reminds me subject from one seminar i was attended some years ago. I was quite surprised to learn that in the great literature of all progressive societies love is a verb. Reactive people make it a feeling. They are driving by feelings. Proactive people make love a verb. Love is something you do: sacrifices you make, the giving of self. The author advised to a man who was complaining about his family situation saying "the feeling of love just is not there anymore" - Love your wife. If feeling isn't there, that's a good reason to love her: serve her, sacrifice, listen to her, empathize, appreciate, affirm her.
I like this theory. Unfortunately in practice there are too many factors to consider.

I absolutely agree with you, Elena, and very well said. Please elaborate on what you mean by "too many factors to consider..."

I agree with you that a relationship is not just an entertaining and pleasant undertaking, it requires work and effort from BOTH parties. The ability to divorce is a benefit however (painful as it may be, do you really need a partner who does not love you?). In terms of effort, that might be reasonable for a couple to turn to a good psychologist before they make a final decision.

Concerning the statement that love is a deliberate choice - good. When guys start deliberately choosing ladies, who behave adequately, who really match those guys (e.g. maybe they do not look like models but are nice persons) and who have a feeling for those guys (instead of exercising the "hunter's instinct" by chasing virtually indifferent women), that will be nice. We will hear fewer men's complaints. But again this rule must be BILATERAL: not the guy choosing only whom he fancies, without any effort to develop love towards those for whom it does not exist, and the woman - obliged to deliberately develop love in herself, because the guy wants her.

Of course it is very well said. It's Stephen Covey and his 7 Habits). As for me I think each case is unique. We also should not forget about chemistry. The fact of the matter is that love involves chemical connections within our brains--despite how unromantic that sounds. And when it's over you find yourself face to face with a real person with all his faults and defects. And then either you accept and love him for who he is, either you let him go. Why torture him and yourself? Each of us worth love and happiness.
One thing is clear -decision about the final break should be taken If you believe that there is no other choice but divorce.

Amazing Tim! Elena has read Stephan Covey! I am impressed!   How was your trip!? Did you pick up anything in Ukraine!?

Yes, I agree the chemistry is important; however, sometimes love defies all known reason and all known schools of thought. Just when you think you've figured it all out, something happens!

I believe I once mentioned that my son (The Marine) traveled with a group of young people that performed all across the U.S., speaking to teenagers, in big, live audiences, about sex, social problems, etc. There was one little girl on the tour who really disliked him. I always thought of her as "the snotty little brunette with the bad attitude". Traveling for 9 months on a tour bus with 14 other people can really get on one's nerves.

Karl would tell me about her, that she was always saying, "Karl, I don't like you!"! I asked about his reply? He said, "I told her, I don't like you, either!" This continued for months; I said he should always be polite, regardless.

After the tour season was over, he brought her home for me to meet; they were holding hands. I asked her what happened? She said that regardless of how mean she was to him, he was always kind her. When all the other guys grabbed their clothes and ran into the hotel at night, Karl always stayed behind and helped all the girls with their luggage, before going to his own room. "He was just so polite! I think he just wore me down." Jess has been my daughter-in-law now for almost three years and every time I talk to him, they are more in love than before. She adores him, and she is not even that type!  )))

Helga, do you ever hear me complaining!?  

Doug, you are a man, not men 😉

However generally there are a lot of male complaints about sad and unshared love, in spite of the fantastic choice that this site offers. There were some complaints even in this Forum, luckily as well as happy reports of relationship and marriage from those who made their choice sensibly and throughly.

Как вы спросили Тима? "Поймал" ли ты что-нибудь в Украине?" Мы уже "что", как чудесно!

Да, я помню, Стэн и несколько ваших соотечественников рассказывали о том, как заинтересовать американку - нужно стащить ее с пьедестала. Наши женщины не американки. Сделать Тиму популярность, публично щелкая женщин по самооценке, вряд ли получится, потому что избыточным чувством собственной важности они и так не страдают, а "брутальных мачей" нам и своих хватает, поэтому, изображая одного из них, на общем фоне выделиться будет трудно. Незнание особенностей менталитета может сыграть злую шутку (всю "рыбу" молодому человеку распугаете).

Далее, так ваш сын просто полюбил свою будущую жену по ходу общения или сделал над собой усилие, чтобы полюбить? Ну и у вас если любви нет, но женщина вся такая хорошая, и по всем качествам вам подходит, вы будете делать над собой усилие и заставлять себя любить ее, оставаться с нею? Заставляли ли вы когда-нибудь себя усилием воли оставаться с женщиной, к которой у вас прошли все чувства?

For some men, easier to blame all the women in the world, instead of just one man.

Doug, it was 6 days training course arranged for the management of company I has worked for.
The company was american, the lecturer was Englisman and the location was Kabul.
About Karl love story, something tells me that chemistry was already there when the girl told your son "I do not like you".

Doug, once you asked me in what way feministic men are different. OK, here is an example. A feministic man will never say: "Did you pick up anything in Ukraine!?", not only in public, but even in a private man-to-man talk.

Stephan Covey is a great writer. Good move for your company!

Regarding Jess and Karl; he was not really trying to become closer to her. She was simply being the gentleman he was taught to be, regardless of her poor attitude. Part of that "Do right thing regardless of how you feel toward someone" thing!  )) I do that most of the time...not always!  )))))

Culpar a todas las mujeres del mundo y no a un hombre... Escribe el traductor..
Creo que en ambos sexos se encuentra lo mejor y peor... La maldad no es de un sólo género...

Alright ladies! We have a misunderstanding here. In the US, this would be a subtle way of asking did you find someone while you were on your trip, without asking if you found a girl!? I'm sorry if I offended someone. I did not mean to.  

Ok, Victor. I will explain! It is easier for some men to blame all the women in the world instead of seeing himself as the problem as why he can find no one. Another way to say, "He should take responsibility, change his life and become a more likable person." Do not blame others for your own deficiencies. If a man is willing to change himself for the better, even our friend Tom can have the girl of his dreams! Any news on him?

No, no offence. You once asked me the question and I gave the answer (which is valid anyway).

Doug... Aquí falla la manera de entender la manera de ser.. En el sur de Europa nuestra idea es que hemos nacido con una personalidad y una manera de entender la vida..
Uno puede moderar sus actos,cambiar su conducta... Pero con la personalidad se nace... Aquí decimos: no le pidas peras al Olmo...
Es decir,igual que el Olmo no nació para dar peras,no pidas que nadie cambie.
Como veo que tom te preocupa.... Tenemos otros dichos:
Siempre hay un roto para un descosido...un clavo siempre quita otro clavo...Noé metió todo parejas en el arca,y todos estamos destinados a tenerla...
Estate tranquilo..estoy seguro que existe una Tom con faldas buscando a su igual..

Voy pasar unos días fuera... Si no respondo es por otros motivos.
El lunes,luns,Monday no estoy..ser buenos.

Y dices que no hay cambio climático... Ve sacando la canoa para ir al supermercado..

Victor, anyone can change, if they really want to...if she is important enough. ))

Have fun, Victor! We will be here when you return! Stay safe, my friend!

The scientists here, who originally "invented" the data to support "global warming", are the ones who now say there is no global warming; I simply agree with them.

Three days ago, the National Academy of Sciences released the results of an exhaustive study related to this subject. Instead of getting warmer, their data shows that over the past 18-years the earth has cooled slightly. There has been no rise in the earth's temperature during this time. The polar ice caps are now covered with 50% more ice than previous. Even our liberal Washington Post reports this.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/capital-weather-gang/wp/2013/09/23/antarctic-sea-ice-hit-35-year-record-high-saturday/

Now the same people that claimed the earth was warming are saying the earth is cooling because it is warming.  )))))) Really? A coming new Ice Age because the earth is getting warmer? Here is some interesting reading regarding volcano eruptions around the world. These statistics describe one single volcanic eruption in Iceland, which dumps 5 times more SO2(Sulfur Dioxide)into the atmosphere than all of Europe combined; each year there are 50-70 eruptions around the world (84 in 2013). This data shows that a single volcano can emit massive amounts of SO2 emissions, which dwarfs anything humans could possibly do.

I absolutely agree with you Doug. And not only fathers, it concerns to women as well. I think when spouses really love each other their children feel comfort in: 1) they get as much warmth as they need ( sometimes parents pay too much/little attention to their kids); 2) children learn how to love, how to treat their spouses (as you mentioned above); 3) the most important they see how to behave, what to say when you love, what one should do when in love, how to show your love. So they will tell in their future where is passion and where is love. Because love is everyday deeds. Loving parents should work like gardeners if they want to grow flowers. Surely they won't have an idea of divorce because it will destroy their garden.

He vuelto!.Ahora tras una corta ausencia Portuguesa,ya vuelvo para seguir mostrando a eslavos y el mundo,la personalidad del sur de Europa..
Veo que Tom sigue en plan Eros Ramazotti.. Melancólico.
Bueno Doug... Empieza el debate...