Gentlemen's club
Robert
Confusing
Can someone help me understand the mentality here. A lot of girls on this this website claim to want a relationship but quite a few literally force you to carry the conversation. What I mean by that is you are expected to generate all the conversation and questions, that is understandable for the first few messages but quickly starts to become irritating and condescending especially when you have been communicating for a week or more. Where I was raised it generally means the girl wants you to go away as quickly as possible. A relationship generally means two communications or am I missing something here?
Ekaterina
Вот только на днях описывала патриархальное общество. Я думаю, что об этом не стоит забывать. В России, например, ещё сильны патриархальные установки. В России больше развита идея того, что мужчина должен проявлять инициативу в отношениях.
Считается, если мужчина мужчина не проявляет инициативу, значит, он не заинтересован в серьезных отношениях. Но! Инициатива должна быть деликатной, без напора.
"Напористость как качество личности – склонность надавить, навязать окружающим свои желания, оценки, не считаясь с их мнением; во что бы то ни стало, любой ценой добиться своей цели.
Как всё избыточное и чрезмерное, придающее кому-то или чему-то повышенную значимость, напористость является порочным качеством личности."
В общем, нужен баланс: проявлять инициативу, но прислушиваться к желаниям партнёра.
Оставлю цитату о свойствах патриархального общества.
"Жесткая иерархия патриархатного общества формирует множество барьеров для полноценной реализации личности. Одним из таких барьеров и является барьер социального пола (гендера), предписывающий человеку выполнять его "естественную" роль в качестве социального мужчины или социальной женщины, "закрывающий" или ограничивающий для мужчин и женщин ряд сфер жизнедеятельности - общественную сферу для женщин и семейную для мужчин.
Что такое «гендер»
Социальный пол (гендер) - не тождественен биологическому полу, он конструируется социальной практикой. Возникает система норм поведения индивидуумов, предписывающая выполнение ими определенных социо-половых ролей, формируется устойчивая система понятий о том, что представляют из себя "женские" профессии, занятия, черты характера, а что - "мужские". Женщинам и мужчинам априорно навязываются определенные роли, отклонение от которых связано с общественным неприятием. Мальчикам нельзя играть в куклы и плакать, девочкам нельзя драться и катать машинки. Девушкам нельзя проявлять инициативу в любовных связях, юношам нельзя не служить в армии, нельзя быть слабым и мягким. Женщинам нельзя ставить на первое место карьеру, мужчинам нельзя не ставить на первое место карьеру и т.д."
Сделаю акцент на одном из выражений в этой цитате:
"Девушкам нельзя проявлять инициативу в любовных связях..."
Chris
Hi Robert, this is a mix of many things: cultural issues, differing personalities, and partially an issue with the pool of online daters. One of the peculiarities here is that yes, a woman who answers one sentence to a paragraph, doesn't ask questions, doesn't take interest in anything you say - she can be absolutely interested in you, and she'll be disappointed when you stop talking to her. Sometimes it's totally obvious within the first couple of messages that someone just isn't a talker and I agree, it's incredibly frustrating. I didn't waste my time on those people.
Occasionally it may be a matter of women being icy until you can make them open up, but as mentioned, men are expected to take the lead. Cultures clash in this sense, because I don't think it's reasonable for a woman to contribute very little to a conversation and expect it to last long. We assume that conversation should be pleasant and natural and not forced, whereas they see it differently. A reasonable person should associate a lack of initiative in conversation to a lack of success in finding someone. Here's the crux, though: the marriage rate is very high in FSU countries, and people get married early. Online dating has more of a stigma in the FSU countries than it has to the west, so there is a strong reliance on meeting people locally & physically. Local marriages favor people who have strong social ability to create those relationships, and people who are silent don't attract attention, and therefore are less likely to find their spouse.
I've been on this site for a while and I can tell you that in my experience in general, the women here in our age bracket (presumably younger than us) who are putting effort into searching are largely only here because they couldn't find anyone locally. There are exceptions, mostly women who have already spent time in the western world, women who were trained to speak foreign languages, and those who have been betrayed and expect better. But generally - great, extroverted candidates who have no problem meeting people aren't the typical female registrant here. You may get lucky by talking to a woman who just joined up from curiosity, but this site is a revolving door in which a large portion of the profiles won't be here next week, and there are lots of profiles of women who have not been chosen in the several years they've been here. Target those new profiles and hope that you find someone suitable.
The answer could be a language barrier, as simple as that. I suspect, the majority of your vis-a-vis have limited commnad of English. Couple it with the cultural tenet of expectation of men taking initiative, and in some instances with natural shyness, and there is a recipe for frustration.
The advice would be to narrow your search to the girls who speak English and have a wide array of interests, which should be reflected in their profiles.
Yuliya
Привет)
Традиционный взгляд - как в танце ведет мужчина. Красивый танец требует чувствительности и понимания. Но с диктаторами и инфантилами это сделать не возможно.
В семьях большинство хотели бы иметь дома послушную, управляемую, уступчивую женщину, умеющую делать баланс семейных интересов.
Если возраст 20-30 они могут еще находится на содержании родителей и учиться, получение степени например. Мнение и одобрение родителей при выборе будущего мужа играет большую роль. Крепкая эмоциональная связь с дочери и матери, поиск мужа как папа - глава семьи. Традиции.
Удачи)
Тоже почему первая мысль возникла: что просто не натолкнулись на общие увлекающие обоих темы
Ну и ещё градус открытости для общения, того или иного человека, может быть разный
А автору поста: не сдавайся -к цели приходит тот кто идёт к ней
Hi Robert . I m not interesting in men who wants only chatting or empty talks . I m interesting only in serious man who s ready to meet as soon as possible . To talk to the ppl you never met in real life is very hard for me . To fall in virtual love is a bad idea ..if i see a man wants only bla bla bla i stop our chatting . If a man talks about his plans , about his future gf and reasons why he wants to get a russian gf.. if he ask me about placies where i can meet him is what makes me keep talking to him .
Chris
Elena, I think you misunderstand Robert’s problem. He is talking specifically about women who can’t even hold a decent conversation in the first place. This topic has come up many times on this forum, and there are many women on this site to whom it applies. It’s not reasonable to expect a man to travel to a woman who puts very little effort into conversation. Why should he spend his time and money to find out if the woman who is boring to talk with online is boring to talk with in person? That’s absurd.
Hi Robert ,
I`m not sure how long you are on the site.Neither do I know , if you have met Slavic women.
I mean to say , if you have been to Slavic countries and have met /spoken with women / girls.
If you have personal experience with talking to Slavic women , you should have noticed the differences , between them and Western women /girls.
If you don`t have personal experience with conversations with Slavic women ,then there are some things that you will need to learn.
As you stated , you don`t understand the mentality of Slavic people.
Oh , yes , not understanding them , is one of the easiest and biggest mistakes , that foreigners make.
Having said that , I don`t know , of course , which women you have chosen to start a conversation with.
Take note of what Ekaterina and Yuliya have said.It has everything to do , with the mindset and mentality of Slavic people /women.
Since you have a learning curve to go through , I would suggest to be really , really very patient.
If you have a chance , read all or almost all about their culture and their tradition.
One other important thing , that most foreign men seem to miss , is that you should /must read between the lines.
Since you are a complete stranger , to these women , don`t expect them to be fully open , or that they will believe everything that you tell them.
Even though you may have the best intentions.And you may be really honest and trust worthy.
But how would they know ?How can they tell ?How will you prove to them , that you are sincere , will it show in your letters ??
Yes , you as the man , the future leader of the family , you should , no , you must take the initiative.
Remember this.When the day will come , that she will introduce you , to her parents , they will observe you.
And they will check , if you are in the lead.If you can take the initiative.
It is not only about your conversation.It is also about your body language.
Can you be the leader.Can you be the head of the family.
They will observe , if you understand , what is expected from you.If you can /will support your future wife /family.
Sure , a relationship , also must have dialogue and conversation.But the man should know his role in this.
That is according to Slavic traditions.
I will give just an example.With a Slavic girlfriend , we bought some presents for one of her very good female friends.
Presents for the girlfriend and for her little children.
And , guess what.
She told me , that I must give the presents to her friend.
Why ?? Because I am the man.I am the leader.
On another occasion , we bought some presents for her sister and her brother - in - law.
And before we entered her sister`s house , she said , that I must give the presents to her sister and the sister`s husband.
You don`t have to find this strange , because that is how it is.
When you will have a relationship with a Slavic woman , she will tell you this also.
A Slavic woman , she knows her role in a relation and in a marriage.
Of course , there must always be mutual respect and trust.
Hopes this gives you an idea ...
You are not going to change this.
Elena can express her opinion on an equal footing with everyone, there is nothing absurd in this.
Moreover, we female audience knows why she has this opinion.
Olga
From what country is your woman Erik? What is "Slavic woman" and "the mentality of Slavic women"? Because I don´t know, I´m from Belarus. I think all people are different.
Olga
Такое ощущение, что эти дяденьки сидят тут веками и сами не знают, чего хотят)))
Olga
But how many men can hold a decent conversation on this site? 50/50, I think
Hello Olga ,
She is from Ukraine.Well there are Slavic people.
So , there are also Slavic men and women.
You may /can correct me if I`m wrong.
About the mentality of Slavic women.I don`t remember that I raised this topic.
But in general , Slavic women tend to be reserved when it is concerning foreign men.
I have no experience , how Slavic women behave with regard to local men.
From my own experience , I have seen , that it is the man , who should make the first move.
In other words , the man must take the intitiative.
I`m pretty sure , that it is the same with you.Or are you somewhat different , and you approach the man first ??
That said , I had encounters with Ukrainian women , who made the first step.
And they approached me and started a conversation.But that was in English.
I am not in a position to have a conversation in Russian.But I know some Russian words and easy sentences.
So , I am absolutely not afraid , that I can not meet and make contact with such a woman.
I don`t know how many times , I had eye contact with a Ukrainian woman.
While walking in the streets.
Several times , some gave me a really big smile , as they were approaching me.
It was only because I don`t speak Russian , and I did not know exactly , if and how the internet was working there.
And lastly , at that time , I had just a 2G normal mobile phone.
I did however , had an electronic word translator from English to several other languages.
But now I have a smart phone and I know how the internet and wifi works overthere.
So , nothing is going to hold me back , to have some sort of conversation with a nice Ukrainian woman.
Yes , you are right.All /some people are different.
Slavic women have a good common sense.
They want a man who is kind , neat , friendly , chivalrous.
Who shows respect and treats her with dignity.
Of course , the man should be properly dressed and groomed.
And Slavic women , they have that sixth or seventh sense.
They can distinguish from a far , if you are the proper man.
That you have the qualities , that they seek in a man.
I don`t know , how they do it.
But , like I said , I had many encounters , with Ukrainian women , who were really giving me deep and long eye contact.
And there have been some , who gave me a really , really big smile.
Even if you have not much experience with women , you cannot mis - interpret this one.
But like I said , I had to let her pass by , even though she was a beautiful and model - like looking sweet woman.
She even turned around , to check what I would do (and I did the same)
Oh well , women , women ....
I know that they will cross my path , when I will go back ...
No worries , no worries ....
Hopes this answers your questions ..
Согласна, ,и я заметила, что изменился контингент. На действия способны лишь 3%, а остальные бла-бла-бла)))
Olga
Видимо, в реальной жизни им и поговорить не с кем Бедняжки!😅 Иногда чувствуешь себя каким-то цирком Дюссолей, куда стекаются все депрессивные - развлекать да успокаивать))) Думала инглиш свой подтяну, но носители языка тут такие полумертвые, что как бы остатки не забыть!😂😂😂😂 Да простят меня эти достопочтенные господа))))
Ну так 1:1. Им не с кем поговорить, Вы замуж не хотите, а хотите английский на сайте знакомств.
Olga
Olga
Hello Eric.
Thank you for the answer. It´s very interesting but I don´t agree.
"And Slavic women , they have that sixth or seventh sense.
They can distinguish from a far , if you are the proper man.
That you have the qualities , that they seek in a man".
If it were truth they would get married only one time
"I`m pretty sure , that it is the same with you.Or are you somewhat different , and you approach the man first ??"
I think, I´m different. I'm not afraid of showing interest to a man I like.
When you say "the mentality of Slavic people" do you mean all Slavs including Poles, Slovaks, Croats, Macedonians, Montenegrins, Bosniaks, Bulgarians, Serbs and Slovenes?
Olga
Роберт последний раз был на сайте 2 дня назад. Похоже, цирк дю Солей на YouTube смотрит. Тоже неплохо, как вариант
Yes you are right, most of women here are unable of any real conversation, and there is no exchange, only the man feeds the discussion, asks questions and they are not involved in the process of communication, not curious, simply empty. This is why i gave up. Unilateral process , discussion and approach is discouraging.
Olga
Ах, какая драматургия! Ну, раз вы с Робертом такие "наполненные" - общайтесь друг с другом)) Думаю, найдёте общие интересы✊
Yuliya
Про дудочку)
Дудочка/дудка - народный музыкальный инструмент. На Руси появилась до прихода христианства. Использовали не только как музыкальный инструмент, но и с практичными целями. Пастухи с помощью дудки (мелодии) подзывали пасущийся скот, они шли на звуки знакомой мелодии. Также дудкам приписывали целебные свойства под звуки дудочки делали заговоры. Простота изготовления и простые навыки игры сделали этот инструмент национальным инструментом не для одного народа.
По этой причине существует много фразеологизмов где этот музыкальный инструмент используется как образ. С разным смыслом естественно, т.к функционал разный, история и ареал обитания жизни дудки насыщенная и длинная.
В России есть такое выражение, например, очень прижилось такое - "Плясать под чужую дудку".
А принадлежит оно древнегреческому философу Геродоту, который жил в V веке до нашей эры. В своей книге «История» она излагает одну легенду, некогда написанную Эзопом – мастером иносказания: «как-то один флейтист, решил выманить рыб из моря, играя на флейте. Он стал играть, но рыбы так и остались плавать в морской пучине. Тогда флейтист взял сеть и выловил много рыбы, которую он бросил на берег. Рыба стала извиваться на берегу, подпрыгивать и «плясать». «Что же вы не плясали, когда я играл вам» - обратился флейтист к рыбе.
Также есть еще и такие выражения
"Дуть в свою дуду". Этот фразеологизм использует, например, старец Пассий: "Люди хотят грешить и иметь добренького Бога, чтобы он их постоянно прощал, а они продолжали "дуть в свою дуду".
Еще один пример "И швец/чтец и жнец, и на дуде игрец"
Sure , you do not have to agree with me.That is part of having a discussion.
I really don`t know if Slavic women marry more than 1 time.And , if it were so , then I obviously do not have the answer to that.
Well , I use the term Slavic women /men to indicate in which part of the world they live.
Not only in the FDR ( now the Federation of Russia) you can find Slavic people.
If you understand what I mean.
In general they live in Eastern Europe.But I have not made a real study of it.
Sure enough , also in Poland you have Slavic people.
My first Slavic girlfriend was from Poland.
[quote]"" I think, I´m different. I'm not afraid of showing interest to a man I like. "" [end quote]
Well , that was precisely the point that I wanted to make.
I was really surprised that some women , would dare to step up to me and ask me some questions / read showed interest.
Because that is not , what they normally do.At least , I was not waiting or expecting that this would happen.
But , for everything there is a 1st time.
Anyway , I have noticed , that women do show interest in me , when walking in the streets.
But I am not really shure , why that is.I do not want to brag about it.
Well ,my girlfriend was never married.
Although she is stunningly beautiful with a feminine model - like look and a fatal female attraction.
But "beauty is only skin deep".The inner side is much more important.
And by the way , she was/is not on this site.And she had been doing some photo modelling work.
There was this beautiful young female student , who wanted to come and stay with me.
But I would leave the next day , and I`m also not sure , if my girlfriend would have liked it.
I do like /hope to meet her again , and find out how she is doing now.
But I wish her all the best and that everything has worked out very good for her ..
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