This is really interesting post... 

Woman.....

I think that women are less visual than men when it comes to finding a partner.... But not initially!!! If I speak to one of the best girls (looks wise) on this dating agency for example and she knows her value she will want to Skype fast and see the real me... however I know there’s better looking men than me but I value my social status and intellectual worth. I know i am kind, good in bed, and can hold a interesting conversation for hours... I know further that once she knows me has a person I will quickly become part of her life in the fact she will want to message me in the morning and last thing at night and times in between!!  So my worth is that I’m happy to Skype once she’s spent a little time to know me however she can have pictures unlimited... and if the initial bond is built she will like me on Skype also!!! Women 90% of time can see beyond looks! If I go to a night club I won’t be noticed by women and there’s better looking guys than me however if I speak to woman her interest will be fast in me... there’s a line in the Crowded House song... “Four Seasons in One Day” where Neil Finn says “you can tell a man from what he has to say”  I think this is true and how he talks and his conversation and confidence  is quant-essentially what is going to get him the result he looks for short or long term...  so I think the answer to your question is to women looks don’t matter 

Well I think he can't force her do that as there are cases of unsucessful plastic surgeries connected with many health problems and getting more ugly. Lately some woman died from plastic surgery in my city. He can cautiously bring this before woman like saying if she wants to improve something about her he would cover all expenses gladly. But better is to find someone you like and accept from the beginning and don't bother about some flaws. If there is no charm in a woman (no matter how clever she is) it won't appear after a plastic surgery.

Для меня очень важно, чтобы мужчина привлекал меня внешне и как человек. Если мне нравиться мужчина, если меня тянет к нему физически, то все его незначительные недостатки, как большой нос и не идеальные зубы, становятся только достоинствами для меня. Это относится и к характеру. Но вот к ожирению и не соблюдению личной гигиены я отношусь очень негативно. И даже смогу прямо сказать мужчине, что ему надо меняться, если он растолстел ( в том случае, если я уже не один год знакома с мужчиной и люблю его). И, если он хочет быть привлекательным, то приведет себя в порядок, я в этом уверена.
Также я не стану даже начинать отношения, если увижу, что мужчина грязнуля. Я и сама готова полностью измениться, при условии, если буду любить мужчину.

Ok lets imagine this man is a truck driver having a grey long beard, long grey hair. And the woman would tell him - first shave of your beard, then cut your hair short and color it, men should color hair, then change your profession to some other and only then I can love and accept you. What would be a man's reaction? There are a lot of things I would want to change about some men as well, but I wouldn't tell that a person as I know it's then not my person as person't appearance is usually a reflection of his or her inner self. You can change a form of a nose, but you can't change the look in the eyes or add sincere smile on that face.

Для меня внешность мужчины мало значит. И если я встречаюсь с мужчиной - значит он мне понравился таким какой он есть. Я оцениваю людей комплексно. Но мне нравится когда человек над собой работает и меняет себя в лучшую сторону. Я поддерживаю такие вещи. Но я - поклонник естественной красоты, для меня красивый человек - это здоровый человек, имеющий здоровый образ жизни и образ мыслей. И поэтому такие люди хорошо выглядят. Поэтому них не будет ожирения, желтых прокуренных зубов, нездорового дыхания и т.п. Меня не пугает большой нос, или не идеальные зубы (но зубы быть должны), кривые ноги, отсутствие волос или повышенная волосатость, шрам, морщинки и т.п. Мне лично нравится когда люди имеют что-то, что их отличает от остальных, от серой массы. Внешность таких людей индивидуальна. Нужно иметь смелость, чтобы быть не такими как все. Не поддаваться моде или понятиям о красоте, навязанные обществом или определенным кругом людей.

to your post: I would take a woman with pretty face and if a body is not perfect would put her on diet or send to a gym. Because if you take the second variant where the body is perfect but the face is ugly and needs plastic surgery, they can of course change it with plastic surgery but it won't change the fact that the kids will then be ugly as well. I remember there was article saying that chineese man divorced his wife after an ugly child was born because his wife concealed from him that she did a plastic surgery.

In England is not always possible has girl not got Slavic mentality so to look both good with good body not in female British culture! I love Badminton which is an arobic sport so with right person we would both always be at optimum fitness by doing this 2 hours a day... re plastic surgery this can be crazy with some men I known a very small build of woman who met man who like manga comics and he wanted to make his woman like a manga girl... he go surgery for so much silicone into small girls breasts this make her many problems for years he also told her he was tattoo artist and he pierced her clitoris for sexual pleasure sadly this also go wrong and she had nerve problems girl have many back problems due to stupid man. I’d be happy to pay for plastic surgery for woman but only if she both wanted and needed this 

Vague and ambiguous wording.. as it stands now - no, I can't and I won't 

That had been my initial thought as well Vera, why even engage with someone you find flawed if that is how you see them, it seems fundamentally flawed, and it's not fair to them...they may not see it as an issue and you certainly can't make anybody do anything so why even head down that road...but then he made the point about how much he really liked her and I have never been in that position where a girl had everything else I valued and the one hang up could be fixed. Usually problems I find are related to character or values, goals and those are so deeply ingrained that they are not capable of being changed...if I found somebody who matched me on those levels could I walk away without trying to fix the one easy fix? or do you just reach a point where that fix is no longer an issue because the value of those other things supercede the "imperfection"...I don't know which is why it created such a fun talking point, it's all hypothetical to me and I can see this from multiple sides and can make cases for each. I just wondered as it was all guys who were talking how a woman would take hearing you are the one I want but I have a problem with this...offense on some level would be taken but would there be a part of her who could see it, and understand, is this simply a non starter if a guy brought this up...I was curious so I appreciate your answer.

interesting Olga, thank you...I absolutely agree about hygeine and obesity, those are just matters of respect for yourself, if you can't do the basics of taking care of yourself, I only expect it to get worse. I simply would not engage with that type of person as it is so contrary to how I carry myself...but with something like ears that stick out, that is completely out of the control of an individual, that is just how you developed so it's interesting to hear you'd be open to changing physically to some degree for someone if you loved them. I try to place myself in that situation and there are things I would change about myself, I think most people have some insecurities even if we generally think very highly of ourselves but if somebody else said you have to change that I wonder how I would take it. For example I've broken my nose in a car accident and I would like to restore it closer to my normal nose tho nobody has ever told me my current nose is an issue but for me I am getting it resolved because it feels not quite me so I will be having it done soon but if somebody said you have to get your pre accident nose back I think it'd bug me. It takes a big person to be able to hear criticism without taking offense. 

I see your point Vera, like i said earlier I can take multiple positions on this...

I guess my take on that is I see that everyday...beards have become trendy in this part of the world but I've dated girls who would complain endlessly about a days worth of stubble, it hurts my face or i just don't like it and I'd find myself shaving more often...you just do some things to make your partner happy but I guess the question is where does that line stop...haircut is one thing but profession is another...if a guy isn't thrilled with his work his woman saying it's time to look elsewhere may be the push he needs to do it or it could be downright disrespectful to him if he's passionate about what he does...its a fine line. No amount of aesthetic changes can replicate a real emotional and intellectual connection but can you form those things without true attraction? that's the question

thank you Yuliya, I fear you may be one of the exceptions and not the rule. Appearance isn't everything but it is usually something...how much for each varies...have you always felt this way, when you were in your 20s were you more superficial or have you always felt this way...not to say you're old you're not or I am too and i refuse to accept that haha but it seems that as people age the more value they place elsewhere and are willing to accept more "flaws" I wish I could say I was one of those people but I still place a pretty high value on the aesthetic, I have to admit that my career choice plays into that, I am around some of the most beautiful people in the world on a daily basis, it does affect how you see people and I wish it didn't. 

maybe you could and should?  

It is the same here David...finding women who pride themselves on their health and well being, and take pride in their appearance is getting rarer in this new body positivity overly pc world where obesity is to be celebrated and lack of hygeine is a personal choice, nobody should say a thing lest we hurt their feelings...tell a woman that being 200 plus pounds at 5 ft is unhealthy to her heart, or that her free flowing is a gross idea that is unhygenic and you're a tyrant of the patriarchy trying to keep women down lol...

I look at it much like you do David, I appreciate a woman who has the drive to keep herself fit and healthy and takes pride in her appearance...I wouldn't want to push someone towards surgery to create a level of health or physical appearance she could never create on her own, as it is an unncessary risk but if someone is genuinely unhappy with some aspect of themselves that is otherwise unchangeable thru their own efforts I would support it as I would hope they would support me in return.

I think this is not fair to the other person : first you accept him as he is, and then begin to alter or demand something to change. Thus you break his individuality. If it starts to change, it will be another person (externally and possibly internally). The other case, if the person is "spoiled" in the course of your communication (e.g. was the smell😊 ), then you have the right to Express and this will be right.

not to nitpick but isn't that exactly what most women do anyway? most young woman will pick a man not based entirely on who he is but who she envisions he will become. I could argue that the individuality is always going to get broken we just sped up the timeline but my making suggestions early

Depends on the character of the person. If he's inclined to obey and adjust, he'll do it. Moreover, he will look for a person who will tell him what to do. There are some really easy. But you don't have to say that about everyone. That's not so. People are different.

Sorry to gatecrash your response to Billy however I want to comment on two words you use.... Obey or Adjust... I find to ADJUST for a woman of worth to be acceptable however I WONT OBEY... I am not I submissive male “a man needs to be a man” I’m looking for a wife not a mother or a dominatrix 🤣😂🤣

Um... I didn't mention it in my post. I said that there are people who are ready for changes and want to adapt to others. Typically with such people "conveniently" to live. But I would get bored soon after dealing with such a person. Spineless people don't interest me. A man should be a man, but he should know where the line, through which it is impossible to cross : insult and humiliation, submission of the person - not for me.

I also say in genaral. I’m not here to control or be controlling but has you said previously I won’t be moulded into a different person to pander to someone’s needs for a person that ain’t me

What's wrong with my words?   To demand change from a person IS not right. My man can only advise me, and I will listen to him or not. But these tips may relate to clothing, hair, smell of perfume.... But not a global change in appearance nose surgery, insertion of implants in the chest. These changes can only come from my desire, not from someone else's.

Billy, надеюсь перевод был корректным и я правильно тебя поняла.

Я всегда так думала. В возрасте 20 лет у меня не было столько уверенности как сейчас, чтобы говорить об этом другим людям. Сейчас в 35 лет - я 100% в этом уверенна. И мой жизненный опыт это подтвердил. Бывают очень красивые люди, но их поступки могут быть очень некрасивыми, мерзкими, и тогда человек в моих глазах становится уродом.

А что ты считаешь недостатком? Внешность дается нам при рождении. Форма лица и тела, цвет глаз, волос, рост. Это наши предки передали нам свои гены. Согласись, глупо ругать своих предков за то, что они передали свои гены тебе, и в настоящее время эти гены не в моде? Например, длинный нос? Ну вот сейчас это не модно, но пройдет еще 5 лет и опять будет в моде длинный нос. Сейчас ты его отрезал, а потом опять будешь пришивать? Может быть это вопрос уверенности в себе? 

Конечно, если вы работаете в индустрии красоты, и ваш хороший внешний вид является необходимым элементом, то это другой вопрос. Но я думаю это все-таки вопрос уверенности в себе. Миучча Прада, например, как вам? Она красивая на ваш взгляд? Или ей нужно что-то изменить?     

I think language understanding problem, I try help. acceptable word......... adjust....alter or move (something) slightly in order to achieve the desired fit, appearance, or result. (As described in your answers)

Obey....... submit to the authority of (someone) or comply with (a law). In other words it’s a demand or decree off the protagonist

Ok, David. Now I understand your opinion. Thanks  

As I said elsewhere in this thread, no amount of external beauty makes up for lacking internal beauty but by the same token, being a great person doesn't lead people to be attracted to them either...it's a rare person that can overlook one of those in entirety, I know I'm not that person. 

It is true that we are the culmination of a long line of genetic input from our ancestors, each and every one of us but does that obligate us to accept the results?  You're trying to make the decision to alter ones physical appearance thru surgery sound flip, like one does it as simply as changing a hair style or changing the wardrobe to the latest color fads...talk to the majority of people who have undergone an elective cosmetic procedure and see if it is such a rash impulsive decision done on a whim to match the latest fad. Most people who undergo these types of procedures have been unhappy with some part of them for a long time and they cannot change it thru anything they can do, that has to be a helpless feeling. It is easy to say someone lacks confidence so be stronger if you yourself have never had to deal with it and could not relate to their position. I haven't had a cosmetic procedure but know many who have and almost universally it has made them decidely more happy with themselves so who are we to say you shouldn't do it, who are we to say deny yourself happiness? If you have a slight imperfection do you not try to mask it to the best of your ability? do you not try to enhance what you have thru make up?  what is the difference here, it's just degrees but you're trying to better yourself. We live in a time where options have afforded us the ability to change things that were once out of our control, but you'd ask us to resist in some sort of homage to our ancestors? come on

Ваш пост был о том, что : "смогли бы вы СКАЗАТЬ замечательному человеку, что у него большой нос или ужасные зубы? И тогда бы вы могли быть вместе навсегда." Я правильно поняла? Я не говорю о том, что вы так считаете. Вы предлагаете тему для дискуссии. Вы говорите о каком-то физическом отклонении от общепринятых стандартов (идеалов красоты).

То, что человек делает с собой - это его личное дело. Люди выглядят так, как хотят, как считают нужным, как им комфортно. Они делают из себя то, что считают красивым. Но это их решение, принятое самостоятельно, а не под давлением другого человека. Эта позиция - "переделай нос, и мы будем вместе навсегда" выглядит как шантаж. А что будет, если после того, как будет переделан нос, мне скажут - у тебя нет талии, тебе нужно убрать нижние ребра и у тебя будет тонкая талия, а потом еще лицо, ноги и руки. А может быть ему вообще нужен другой человек, а не я? Не кажется ли Вам, что это очень бесцеремонно? Есть над чем подумать... А нужен ли мне этот человек вообще? НЕТ!!!

Yes that was the gist of the post...

And as for your position, that was my initial position as well. What somebody wants to do with their appearance is their own choice and at my core i still hold that position, nobody can tell another what to do but as I step back and remove the emotion from the charged question of can you tell somebody that you'd like for them to change something about themselves I start to question why you can't even bring up the conversation...You've taken the question to the absurdest extreme and sure if somebody is asking you to do things that are ridiculous like removing ribs, ones common sense should apply as to if they want to be with somebody who would ask such ridiculous things of them but we all take advice from loved ones every day, people try to guide us towards what they view as positive changes for us all the time, why does this have to be any different? We are the ones who have to live with any physical changes we make to ourselves but our partners also have to live with those changes, a partner is asked to love you, be romantic towards you, be intimate with you, yet they can't tell the person they want to spend their life with that they don't like something about their appearance...and they have to accept any changes they make without giving any input?...why? I told an ex girlfriend in the past, when she was contemplating a short hair cut that I did not think it would look good on her, and that in general I did not like that on girls...she went ahead and did it, it didn't look good in my opinion, her body her choice...she thought it was cute, she was the one who had to live with it but I also had to live with it and I had lost a lot of interest in her. Call it shallow if you want but you can't force attraction. I stopped doing the little things she loved, I wasn't as affectionate cause I simply didn't feel it as much, it wasn't on purpose it just happens and she grew frustrated over that and that just festered and we were soon over. Most people would not bat an eye about my saying to her, I don't like your short hair cut, I think you should grow it long again...most people wouldn't bat an eye over a wife telling her husband you're fat, lose weight...but your teeth are crooked you should get invasalign and you're a monster? I think the big sticking point here is that he's tied the rest of his life to the idea that she makes this change and I don't like that part either but I think real couples who are going to make it thru real hard times should be able to have real conversations like this.

Человек либо нравится либо нет, а мелкие изъяны, просто не замечаются, человека воспринимаешь целым как образ, первые минуты, потом ты с ним общаешься, и общение решающе, иногда достаточно немного.
Красивая внешность ,это мизер, без нутра, меня привлекает интелект, отношение к жизни, и в целом.
Как правило чтобы понять твой или не твой достаточно пары минут.

ОК, Billy.

1. Предлагаю разделить понятия: физиологический изъян (нос и зубы), ВАШ ВОПРОС БЫЛ ИМЕННО ОБ ЭТОМ!!!!, и стилистическое изменение, не согласованное с вами (короткая стрижка, которая вам не нравится).

2. Входные физические данные это то, что от нас не зависит. Мы можем это сохранить ведя здоровый образ жизни. Также можем изменить с помощью пластической хирургии. Я либо принимаю внешний вид и вступаю в отношения, либо непринимаю внешний вид и не буду встречаться. Таким образом, мне не надо ничего говорить. Фейсконроль либо пройден либо нет.

3. Абсурд для меня ставить в зависимость - изменение формы носа и быть вместе навсегда (не нуждаюсь в таких отношениях). Я выберу свой нос. Для меня любые формы давления не приемлимы. Сразу теряется ценность отношений. Игра в одни ворота.

4. Если в отношениях есть высокая степень доверия (а именно эти отношения мне нужны), то перед тем как что-то сделать с своей внешностью я спрошу совет, буду искать поддержку. Потому что я буду ценить эти отношения.

Я встречалась с нашим мужчиной, который каждый раз говорил о том, что мне нужно отрезать мои длинные волосы. Я шла на встречу к нему ,боясь этих слов. И в конце концов я с ним рассталась.